ER: This is Ellen Ryan. Pam Price and I are here interviewing Phyllis Florek on February 13, 2019 at Phyllis’ home in Alamos. Thanks for allowing us to interview you for the History Association. Can you give us your full name, and if you want to, where you were born and date of birth.

PF: I am Phylis Marie Florek and let’s see I was born in Douglas, Arizona right there on the border in 1941, December 30. My mother at that time she was a little concerned about where I was in the hospital because that’s about the time that all the news was coming up from the war, and they were afraid that the Japanese were coming in through Mexico, so there was concern about how do I find my baby in the hospitals.

ER: That’s a good concern.

PF: In 1941. What was more with that question?

ER: That was it. How about siblings?

PF: Oh, I have a brother and some of you may know my brother, Bill Latham and his wife Ann. They have a house on Calle Mina. They are not there as much as they used to be. They used to come down quite frequently, but lately they have been more in Florida where they have a boat, but they also have a boat in San Carlos, and they have to come here, too, and they have to come to pay their taxes here, too. That’s what keeps us here, paying taxes. That’s about all for that question.

ER: When did you first come to Alamos?

PF: Oh, okay. That was - what year was that? I was thirteen years old, so 1953. It was almost Christmas time. It was December. We came down. My brother drove us down. We were living in Santa Barbara at the time, and my dad was already working down here, and that’s why we came down. He wanted us to move down here, but that didn't work out. But we did, my brother drove us from Santa Barbara to Tijuana. We got on an airplane in Tijuana - the DC3 where you had to walk uphill to get into the plane. We flew into Navojoa. There was a little landing strip. I don't even know if it is still out there or not. Drove into Alamos. My dad met us at the plane. The road was gravel or dirt - it was nothing. My mother was quite aghast at the smell of all the pig farms that were there. At that time many of the septic pools were covered, and it was really quite gross. Now it’s really improved immensely since then. It’s really quite nice out there now. In fact you don't even know that there’s are pigs there anymore unless you're seeing them being loaded up and taken out. You see the chicken farms, the chicken places, but not so much the pigs. But anyway the drive up was pretty. It was pretty dry at that time, because it hadn't been raining yet, and or the rains had stopped, I guess that’s what it was. It was a long drive. It took a long time to get to Alamos from Navojoa at that time with the dirt road. What else can I tell you about that?

ER: So your father came for work?

PF: Oh, yes, he came. He had a little business that he had started down here. He was a miner, and he had done mining all over including Utah where he worked with ?? Steel when uranium was first discovered. That was what his downfall in life was. It eventually killed him, but we we lived in Grand Junction, and he would bring home rocks. They were pretty rocks. Yellow. They were pretty rocks, and we had a basement in that house, and at Christmas time we took rocks down there and put them with the tree and what have you and my mother said, “They are glowing. I don't think they should be in the house”. So, we ended us taking them out of the house, but it wasn't soon enough I guess, because he did have uranium poisoning. Anyway, he got, that’s why we were here because of the mining. He had started up a little company, little mining exploration kind of company, and they were working on getting, I guess working on getting a barge together, and my brother helped him with that, and I don't know what river it was, but it was to get across a river probably up by San Bernardo, somewhere, something like that, so they could bring in the ore and have it processed down here. That’s - that was the first trip in was by airplane into Navojoa, and then once we were here he had made arrangements to stay one week at the Portales and one week at Tesoros, and that was neither one could keep us for the whole time. It was just my brother, myself, and my mom and dad. Let’s see, what wonderful thing…. Was there more to that question?

ER: Did they stay then, your whole family stayed? Or they left and you stayed.

PF: No, we all left and my dad stayed. By the time, when he had planned different things for us to do while we were here, and one of them was really encouraging to my mother to live down here, and so we went to some of the stores and little shops and stuff and to the school. As we get to the school and open the door and look in. I don't know if there were lights in there or not, or if there were even windows in there. It was very dark. Of course the wood of the chairs and desks were all dark, and there were no students there at that time, and my mother came out and she said, “My daughter’s not going to that school. Buy me a house in Tucson!” That’s how we went to Tucson, but we did stay for the two weeks here. The first week was at the Portales, and I remember other people were there and some of them had kids so there were two or three different kids that - I don't even know their names even, but we got together and played and did fun stuff like throwing rum in the fire and stuff like that or watching it blaze up.

ER: A science experiment.

PF: It was, yes, actually. It was bubbling. I can’t believe we would leave the school there in Tucson, Santa Barbara to come down here to play with rum. It was interesting. The bar in the front of Portales was very active, and most of the men that came down brought their wives down with them so there were fun couples, but not all couples, but most of them were. It was a lot of fun. We had a great time. Then we went from the Portales over to Tesoros and spent the last week at Tesoros, and it was really nice, too. Both of those hotels had just opened up that year.

PP: Oh.

ER: Oh, they were very new then.

PF: They were very new. So all the murals in the Portales were all brand new murals, and now when you see them they are some, where they have been scratched and what have you, from chairs being pushed against the walls and what have you, but or maybe just from the caliche, but they were really quite ??. Everybody dressed for dinner, and we dressed, and New Year’s Eve women had long dresses on stuff like that. It was very festive. New Year’s Eve we had champagne, and my mother allowed me a glass of champagne out of a crystal glass.

ER: Very good.

PF: So that was a good memory of Alamos. One day when my mother and I were out trying to venture around to see something to do, they told us that a good place to go would be to walk to the cemetery to see the graves that were all different and what have you. They had said just look out for the place of the big brick wall, and that’s where you’ll find the cemetery, So we went walking and walking, and we came to this big brick wall, so we went over to it, across the arroyo, went over to it, and we were inside, and the guy inside was so proud of showing us the beautiful place. It was all clean and nice, and he had these metal things hanging off the walls and all this. What in the world is that doing in the cemetery? It turns out it was the slaughter house.

ER: Oh.

PF: We had gone into the slaughter house. But it was day time, so it had all been cleaned out, and they only slaughter at night. In the day time it was all cleaned out. It was interesting. That was a fun memory. We did get out and walk a lot just for something to do. My dad was always in meetings or something like that, so … What else did we do? It was fun at the time, too, to watch the paseos at night time around the plaza. The girls went one direction, and the boys went in another direction. It was very old formal. It was really fun, a lot of fun. I think my brother had more fun than I did. He was older. He was able to do stuff. (laughter) I had to stick around my mother.

ER: He had privilege.

PF: Yes, he did. We made a lot of friends.

ER: Then who came back first, you or your brother?

PF: My brother came back many times. Not to stay long, but to go hunting and fishing with my dad, because they both liked the outdoors, and so Bill maybe came once a year. He was in the military, and he didn't get out of the military until quite a bit later, I guess, but whenever he could he came down to visit my dad. In fact he’s the is the one who brought my dad out the last time.

ER: Then who came first to purchase a house then?

PF: I think, I don't know if Ann and Bill had purchased. I think I did buy a house first. I think so. I wouldn't swear to that. I am not really sure about that. Because we were both coming and going. I was still - I had a bed and breakfast in Tucson at that time, so I had an itch to come down just to get away from the bed and breakfast. It was work. It was a lot of work. It started out so calm and peaceful, and then it got to be popular, and all of the rooms were full all of the time and all the people that came to the bed and breakfast were wonderful, nice friendly people, but still it was like, oh my God, more work, more work, more work!

ER: So when did you first purchase a home then? Do you remember the year?

PF: No I don't remember the year. I would have to think about that.

ER: But it has been awhile.

PF: It has been awhile. At least fifteen years that I have had Rastro. Then the property on the arroyo. This one I have had for about ten, ten years. I just, I have never lived in it until now. First time.

ER: Alright. Then you had the bed and breakfast. Did you do other work in the states?

PF: Yes, I used to manage a bank. Great Western Bank in Santa Cruz, California. I was there at earthquake time. I wasn't there at the earthquake. I was actually in Douglas. Not in Douglas, but in Bisbee, so I had a little apartment in Bisbee, too. I was there with a friend, and we went down to watch the ballgame at the bar that’s down on the main street of Bisbee, and the only thing that was on the TV was all this stuff about the earthquake. Oh my God, earthquake! Of course it was disastrous. So we just packed up and got in the car and started driving back to California.

ER: Everything was fine there?

PF: Well, no. The house was standing. The dogs - no I didn't have dogs - I had cats and I never did find the cats for a week. They were - they would eat their food but I had no idea where they went in the mean time. My neighbor, thank God, had to come in and cleaned up all the glass. All of the cupboards opened up, and all the junk fell out, and all the china cabinets fell and all that kind of stuff. But the house, the house thank God, was anchored to the foundation. It hung up - It was cantilevered off of the hill, and a lot of those houses just caved, because they weren’t anchored onto the foundation. They bounced off the foundations. Thank goodness mine was fine.

ER: Good.

PF: A few years later, I sold that and came down here.

ER: Oh, okay. Then I know you speak Spanish. How well do you speak Spanish?

PF: (Phyllis laughs) I know English. My Spanish is very rudimentary maybe because they are very kind people. They just kind of pretend like they know what you are talking about and carry on a conversation. No, I can get by. I think it’s fine.

ER: Yes, I think it’s pretty good actually.

PP: But how did you learn Spanish?

PF: Oh, we'll that is part of the reason that I came down to Mexico, too. When I was doing the bed and breakfast and wanted to get out, I would go someplace else, so I picked different cities to go to in Mexico. So I went to Mexico City, of course, San Miguel, Puerto Banco??, Potsquaro, Veracruz. Many different place to language schools. They were literally like two weeks long, so you just get this much (gestures with hands) which - and if you get connected to one soon enough you might remember that one part of the language and continue on, but I really didn't start speaking the language until I was living here and had people to talk with and conversations with in Spanish. And have now that I have workers, you have to be able to speak to the worker, so that’s kind of how the Spanish really developed.

ER: Right. And that is common. I think you have to speak where you are.

PF: You do. Yes, you do.

ER: What activities, I know many over time, have you been involved in here in Alamos?

PF: Amigos de Educacion. I have held different positions on that board. At the moment I am vice president and the nice thing about vice president, the reason they put me vice president is because I am not as active as I used to be. You don't have to do a lot if you are vice president. You just have to put a name on the rostero, on the roster. I have participated in things with Commadres, but I was not an active member. What else have I done. For years I did house tours with Amigos. It was a lot of fun. If you ever have the opportunity to do house tours, they are fun. You get to meet a lot of people, and some of the same people come back. There is a groups of pilots that come in, if not every year, then every other year. “Oh hi, how are you? Oh last time I saw you, you had a broken leg. How are you today?’” Anything new going on here. Things like that. That was a lot of fun. What else have I done? I have been involved in a lot of things, I think, but I guess I can’t remember now. I am not actively involved in it anymore.

ER: Domino playing?

PF: Oh, I play dominos, that is right. This afternoon 1:00 on this table. (All laugh) It’s my turn. This is fun, too. Literally in this area has been a whole new awakening for me, because the Rastro is a distance away. Beautiful. I love it out there, but here everything is right here, so when we have dominos today, I am walking down to Parente’s, this little store down here that cooks carne, and they are going to make carne asada for me. They’ll have it all cut up n little pieces, and they’re making all the sauces to go with it and they’ll put the packets of tortillas and the roasted onions will be in there, and I just go down to pick it up and bring it home here. Life is good.

ER: More centrally located. That’s good.

PF: That’s is right.

ER: What is the address here. (Phylis laughs)

PF: Does anything have an address here? There are three roads. There is that road over there, the road out here, and the road that goes across the front and that’s how all the bills come - with those three names, and I can’ remember what those three names are. They’re on the water bill right over there. That’s La Concha. Everybody just knows this property as La Concha. It was, I can actually show you when we go out later on. It was a dance hall. That’s how this started out. And a bar. So the bar was where those little windows are over there in that corner with the whatever that’s called over there. It’s not a closet. It’s a room, but it had a window, and they sold tickets for the dance there, and then people went in to the bar in here and out to the portal, the patio. It was all cement, and it went to the property that’s next door also. That got sold off separately, unfortunately, otherwise I could have had a much bigger patio.

ER: Right.

PF: Also there’s a piece out there that has some rock on it, and Bucho Martinez who has been out here for all his life said that’s when they were having the dances that is where the band was set up - where that round part is, because it went around to the other part of the property that was sold off, and he remembers as a nine or ten year old, coming here and you’d go down to the store and buy a packet of chiclets, and then you would come in and sell them to the men, so their breaths would be nice when they danced with the ladies (Ellen and Pam laugh) He was nine or ten years old when he did that. So he has been kind of enterprising all his life I guess.

ER: Yes.

PF: Now he’s got a beautiful ranch, a couple of ranches. Lots of cows. Those are old memories. I wasn't here at that time. (Phylis laughs)

ER: Yes. When you think of your time in Alamos what are your favorite memories? Then what’s your least favorite memory of living here?

PF: Least favorite might have been the flood. When I was living at Rastro at the time, and the arroyo ran wild and washed out, and there was a circus all set up out there. They had dropped the tent down. They said, “Oh we’ve been through hurricanes before and don't worry about it, we are okay”. They had three big semi trucks with trailers out there on the arroyo, and all of their animals were out there. So when I walked down the morning after the flood, the animals were tied to different trees along the way and the animals were there with the sand dripping off of their coats because of the water that came down in the arroyo. It was unbelievable. It washed out, my God, nobody knows how many cars were washed down. It was really, that was a bad memory.

ER: This was Norbert.

PF: This was Norbert. Yes. It washed out the whole - all the grocery stores in the middle, in that part of town. It was awful. Sewer erupted. One of the best, one of the good memories from that was the first people that came in were police cars. They were pickup trucks, they were pick up trucks. So they came in, and so you had some confidence. Then they came in with pickup trucks full of little bottles of fresh water and clorox. So, you could start to clean up a little bit from this, because there was no fresh water. If you didn't have garrafons in your house. There was no fresh water.

ER: There was no water.

PF: So that was not a - the event was not a good memory, but the results of it were good, because people all pulled together and worked hard together and shared stuff. Hermosillo even sent down the big garbage trucks. We were so, “Oh God, I hope we get to keep these garbage trucks”. They were regular garbage trucks the would pick up stuff for you. All kinds of stuff. But they went back. A bad memory you wanted? Well that was a bad memory, I guess.

ER: Norbert was bad. Other good memories?

PF: Good memories. A lot of good memories. People are friendly and helpful, and of my neighbors up there, there is only one that really didn't speak much Spanish, and they all worked with me to communicate. The Mexican people are all really nice. Very agreeable.

ER: What do you like most about Alamos, to follow up on that?

PF: I like the color. I feel alive because the plants, the trees, the Amapas blooming, the seasonal things that happen. It’s a great place to be.

ER: Can you say that Alamos has changed your life?

PF: Yes, it has changed my life. I am a whole lot more relaxed person now. (Laughter) I used to be very uptight as a banker. You do this, you do that, get it done today and all that kind of stuff, but of course that was over with, and then it was the B&B and that makes sure those girls…. The girls I had working with me at the B&B were mostly college students. They can work at odd times. Their schedules were a little bit different. They were, that was good. They were fun. They kind of kept me in line.

PP: But how did you become a bank manager? How did that happen?

PF: Well it happened because I was a teller. I wanted to go to work. I divorced my husband and needed to go to work. This was in Hollister, California. I went downtown and went to every store along the road and put an application in, and this woman who was the manager of Rural Sales Bank hired me as a teller, so I worked as a teller for six months, and she recommended I become manager of an office in Salinas. So I went down to Salinas, and I guess that manager there had partied the night before and didn't make a good impression on the higher ups, so they decided to send me down. Well she was going to go to Pacific Grove, that’s what it was. Pacific Grove had a better office. So they kept her over there in Salinas, and I went to Pacific Grove. I worked there for a year, almost two years, I guess, and then went on to different bigger banks to work. That was fun. It was, when things are new and challenging they are always fun. When they get to be rote, it is not as much fun, so it’s time to move on. That’s when I started the B&B. Then coming down here to do nothing. Ha ha! (All laugh)

PP: Right! As they say, there is nothing to do, and it takes all day to do it.

PF: That’s right. That’s exactly right.

ER: You still go back and forth to Tucson?

PF: Occasionally. Not as much as I used to. I don't even drive it anymore. There’s too many other was to get there. I can take the buses, you know. I am going up in a week or so, and I am actually going to take the night bus up. Then when I get there, I will be there in the morning and start my day. It’s easy to get out.

ER: Yes, Definitely. What changes have you seen in Alamos, in Alamos over the years as far as festivals or events or …?

PF: As far as the festivals and events. Well there are some very nice events that happen. One I enjoy is the antique car displays. That’s fun. What else do I enjoy? Oh the music festivals. Some of those have gotten quite large and others are not. One fun thing happened one year. My oldest sone was here with his wife, and we were at, on the street in front of the Fisher’s house in that big street there, because that is where the band was set up - on the stage there. My son says, “That group really looks familiar? How come that group looks familiar?” He was next to his wife and she says, “That’s the group that was in Hastings, Nebraska!” They were on a continental, not a continental tour, they were on a tour of the United States, and they played in Hastings, Nebraska and they just happened to be part of the music festival that year here, too. It was. So they went up to them, “Oh yes, remember all those people in Hastings, they gave us dinner, and they did all this stuff”. It was fun. Interesting things like that happen from miles and miles apart. Why, but they do happen. What other things happened at music festivals?

PP: But otherwise in the town, how has it changed?

PF: How has it changed?

PP: Or socially, too, among the Gringos, the Expats, between the Expats and the Mexicans?

PF: That is a big question. I think that - well first of all, I’ like to say that one of the other things that has changed is the number of cars and motorcycles. Before there were horses and a few cars. A few beat up old pickup trucks. Now there’s beautiful pickup trucks and cars that are all put together. Most of them have some kind of license plate on them too. Even if is a ?? plate. So that’s changed, and the traffic on the streets in town trying to find a place to park. People used to walk all the time. Now they’re, I don't think they are getting any larger or anything like that, it’s just that it’s a different way of transportation. (Vendor music outside going by) What was the other part? The expats.

PP: Yes, explain, how has the expat community changed?

PF: This last year I think that the the communication between the expats and the local people is open. People are talking, and people are maybe not going to the same parties or whatever, but they are talking and communicating, where in the past it was a Mexican event or an American event or a gringo event, because they’re not really all Americans. They’re Canadians. You’re not Canadian are you?

PP: No.

PF: There are a lot Canadians around, and now we don't seem to think of anyone who is ?? - but yes, there is a lot of comradery between all of them. There’s a few new people who have come into town that I guess it happens cyclically also that love to entertain. A couple of the guys that bought Number 1 Oregon, and they’re fantastic entertainers. They do beautiful jobs, and so that is fun. That is new to us, too. We have always had entertainment, but there’s is quite elaborate. (Dog barking) Uh oh, there is a dog out there. (Ellen and Phylis laugh) Was there more to that question or was that enough for that one? I don't really or I can’t see anything stellar standing out as far as the difference between the Gringos and the Mexicans and the expat community. It seems to me more of a universal kind of community I guess.

ER: You’ve seeing the cycles over the years of people moving in and houses fixed up and…

PF: Right, yes, it is always interesting how one person fixes up a house, and another person fixes the same house in a whole different way. That helps the employment in the area because the guys paint and do cement work and plaster and all that stuff. They do everything here now. When I first came in, some of the plumbing was like a just a little wiring here holding tubes together, but now it’s a whole lot more professional. (Dog barking)

ER: Let’s see. You talked about traveling other places in Mexico. Do you still travel through Mexico?

PF: You know, in the last couple of years, I haven't traveled that much, but before that I was going all the time. One of the fun trips if you gals haven't done it, and that’s a fun trip to do, go to Esperanza where you can turn to go up to Basiachi Falls. Go up in the Sierras. That is beautiful. The road up there goes like this. It’s this winding little road. (Gestures a winding road). Just a two car wide road. It is not only two cars, because there’s big trucks that go up there, too, because there is some mining up there.

PP: Oh no.

PF: Yes, but you go up there, and it is gorgeous. You go through all the different tree levels from scrub to, well until you get up to the big conifers. It is just beautiful. Then there are a couple of different parks up there, that either you can camp in or have a cabin that you can rent to stay. The falls are right there. The falls are 900 meters tall. It is amazing. Really pretty. There are a lot of beautiful things in Mexico.

ER: Yes.

PF: Well even the train ride going from El Fuerte up to ….

ER: Creel.

PF: Is it Creel? Yes. That’s a good - if you haven't done that trail, do it. There is a zip line up there, too, I understand, but I am not going to do it. (Pam, Ellen and Phylis laugh)

PP: But you do a lot of traveling. It’s really quite amazing. Can you tell us where do you think this wanderlust comes from?

PF: My dad. He was always looking for another hole in the ground. He was always, “Well we've been here. Let’s go someplace else”. I don't know how many times he moved us. My mother. I think we settled down more by the time I was older, but when Bill was young they were moving a whole lot. He saw a lot more than I ever did of the states, too. Just the western part of the States, not so much on the eastern part. Mazatlan - just going to Mazatlan. It’s not far at all. It’s what, a seven hour drive. Something like that. It’s beautiful. The ocean is right there, and it’s really nice. There’s a lot of people. San Carlos just up the road, too. There are a lot of places that are easy to get to. Yes. You don't even have to have special permits for leaving, you know, vehicles. From leaving here. If you are going to go across the border, you have to make sure you have your passports and all that kind of stuff, and the car has to have some placas.

ER: Once you leave Sonora. Yes.

PF: Once you leave Sonora. Yes. But that omapafa?? thing is good for Mexico. There are so many cars were imported from the states, but they could not be imported without paying a lot to do it, but you could omapafa?? the car which makes it legal to use in Mexico. Anyplace in Mexico, so you can travel with it.

ER: What is that term?

PF: Omapafa??.

PP: Never heard of it.

PF: You’ve never heard of it?

ER: I don't know that.

PF: You go into Navojoa to the office there, and you take your license for the car. They don't keep the license for the car or anything like that, but it’s just all registered, and so you become a Mexican car.

ER: Let’s see. What other hobbies do you have?

PF: Reading. Unfortunately, I don't do a lot of writing. Some people get irritated, ”Phylis, you can at least send me an email!” (Pam laughs) It is easier to pick up the phone than do that. And here it is easier to pick up the phone and call now. In the past it was like treacherous to try to get … Remember when you are at the Portales a few years ago, you had to put in your order for a telephone call, and they waited until the line was available, and then they’d find you and bring you in for your telephone call, because there was only one phone in town.

ER: Right.

PF: Now it’s much easier. So what other hobbies do I have? Gardening. I don't get down on my hands and knees anymore, but we direct Poncho to get down on his hands and knees, and he does a lot of good work. He’s a good guy. There are a lot of good workers here in the Alamos area. I used to do a lot more cooking than I do now. In fact that is one of the projects I have this week. I am going to get back up to Rastro. There are things at the house that I haven't taken out of there. Actually, I was looking for some dishes the other day, “Where are those dishes. I wonder if they are still up at the cabinet at Rastro”. I have to go get them out. Also I have built a few houses here. I finished up this one. Built Rastro. On the arroyo there is the two story house and the single story house. Then on the ranch there is a little house, and Poncho is part of that ranch. He built his house. He built his house - this is interesting - something that could happen probably only in Mexico and get away with it. There were, there was a time when the mines were operating up here feverishly, and so they needed to bring in acids and all the different stuff, you know, to do the work, and so these big pickup trucks, not pickup trucks, but big truck trucks would come with these things on the back of the trailers, and they were - built around them was wood, and what was inside of them nobody knew. All that wood that was left over was just put in a pile out there somewhere on the mine, and at that time this place was rented to a miner that was working up there. He told Poncho about that wood, and so Poncho went out and they gave him this wood. He built a house. It’s like the house that Jack built. It’s kind of like trickle and what have you. It was like two rooms, and then it got to be three rooms, and now it’s a house. It has cement floors, cement roof, cement walls, glass windows. Little bit by little bit and this has been over about like an eight year process, and he’s got his house. I had an old air conditioner, so I gave him the air conditioner, so the bedroom has air conditioning. I am not sure if they’ve got an air-conditioning for the other rooms or not, but it is interesting what Mexicans can do when they want to. You hear the stories of the lazy Mexican leaning against the cactus plant with his jug of tequila or whatever, but they're not like that. They are workers. If they want to achieve something, they do. That’s a fun thing to see how things have grown.

PP: What do you like to read?

PF: Oh, I like to read historical novels. A lot of stuff. I like reading about Rome, not so much the bad guys, the developing of the way they die clothes and different things. There is a lot of stuff to read out there. Then I’ll probably forget it the next day and I’ll go on to a different book.

PP: Right, right.

ER: Do you have a lot of photographs of Alamos?

PF: No.

ER: No! You said your family didn't take many.

PF: No, they didn’t take many. I was taking photographs for awhile but I don't really know where they are right now. They are probably still in a box over there in Rastro. Hopefully not wet. That house didn't leak. I didn't mean to infer that that house leaked. (Ellen, Pam and Phylis laugh) It did have…. All houses here have…. There is a lot of rain that comes down at once. It will come down nine inches in a day, kind of thing, and it comes out hard, so sometimes the roofs leak. You've got to be on guard, and get up there to paint with that impermiabilizante before the rains start, and it protects your roof.

ER: It is more about keeping it from coming up in.

PF: Oh right, that, too.

ER: So, under doors.

PF: Yes. That’s true. Lot of the houses aren't built with a raised foundation at all. They are built right on the ground. This one included. (Phylis laughs) But I haven't seen any water come in yet (Phylis looks to the floor).

ER: Watch your doorways.

PF: That’s right. Yes. We had a mortar problem. This house is a cold house. It’s all adobe. It’s very hard to heat, and I am sure probably hard to cool off, too, but a lot of the windows and what have you are metal. There is just not that much wood around, and it’s hard to preserve the wood when you do have wood, so getting metal to mesh and not letting rain come in is rather difficult.

ER: Right.

PF: It comes in underneath the doors. We live through it.

ER: So is your favorite house the other one?

PF: Rastro.

ER: Yes.

PF: It is still my favorite. It’s a neat old house. It’s a, it was a ruin when I found it. The rooms were caved in, but some of the walls were still there. One of the things that happened in the kitchen, somehow the kitchen door was closed. The roof was wide open, but the kitchen door was closed. Underneath one of the counters, there was a mummified rabbit, so it had gotten caught in there, and died evidently and was mummified, and so my sister-in-law, Ann, who is an artist, but also in that kitchen there is that wood stool that’s right there. She took that stool and painted the rabbit right on top of it. Then painted the legs and everything, so that is the memorial day of the rabbit.

ER: Okay. You can always keep the rabbit.

PF: Right, yes. They re-did the roof piece by piece, and did the first part of the house with the new roof with cement placas. I put, well first we put up a tile roof which was nice. I like the looks of a tile roof and all that. From the Mirador you look down on top of that house. I loved looking down to see that tile, but it moves. (Dog barks) When the wind blows and the rains go in one direction, and it pushes the tile apart and what have you, so we just took all that down, left the places on there and painted with that impermiabilizante and that stuff that’s like, its like a oulay?? like a rubber coating kind of thing, so that it won’t leak, but you have to do it every year, so it doesn't crack with the heat. But then what I did was put a layer of tile right on the edge where you looked at the house from level, so it looked like a tile roof, but really it wasn't really all tile.

ER: Unique for Alamos. (Pam, Phylis and Ellen laugh)

PF: Unique for Alamos, right, and nobody knew the difference unless they were up on the Mirador and looked down.

ER: Right.

PP: Right.

PF: You could see the white of that painted stuff. Living here has been fun. It has been an adventure, and it has been a learning process, and meeting a lot of interesting people. People from all over the place. The Mexicans. There’s different, different Mexicans have different interests, so you learn a lot of different things from the Mexicans. The more of the language that you learn, the more you will learn.

PP: Right.

ER: Now have you followed the school programs to see the progress of the school as you did work with - you did all the tours?

PF: No. I did all the tours, but I didn't work with the students. In fact, I do know, I really feel though that the quality of education is much better now than it was when I first came in. There is more credibility for the teachers and for the students, but it is sad still that there are so many students that one teacher can’t handle a whole classroom, and so kids that want to play and goof off will kind of get left behind, because the ones that are serious and will work, the teacher wants to work with them. Which is good that the teacher wants to work with them, but it is unfortunate that there aren't more teachers available or more credentialed teacher to, and I think now this last couple of years in talking with the people in Rastro where their kids are all going to school. There are enough chairs for the kids to sit in anyway, but at first there weren’t. There was not enough desks or chairs for the kids to be at. So it’s pretty hard to teach somebody when they are running around the room. It could get better.

ER: Changes.

PF: It is. It’s changing just from the kindergarten level, too. Those little kids started going to Kindergarten when they’re four years old, and they go to Kindergarten for two or three years, I guess, and then they go to first grade. It still good. Different program. Different from the States, that’s for sure.

ER: Yes.

PF: I went to Kindergarten. I didn't even go to Kindergarten. There wasn't a Kindergarten. We lived up in the mountains, and Bill had taught me how to read because he had a key punch, and mother said, “Take her over there and read a book to her or something”. So he taught me how to read, he taught me how to add and subtract and how to write my name, so when I was four years old, I was able to go to first grade. I went on from there. That was not a good thing to have happen to you, because by the time you are sixteen and graduated from high school and all your friends are eighteen and nineteen and getting married, and you are still sixteen years old. That part wasn't good, but it was great getting off to school.

ER: Right.

PF: I enjoyed school a lot.

ER: Good.

PF: Not that I was ever any great academic, but at least I could read and write and do basic math. I was good. I had good grades. My father wouldn't let me get by without them.

ER: Good for him. You have this beautiful saddle here. Did you ride?

PF: One time or twice. Years ago, when we lived in Grand Junction, I took ride lessons, and I thought that was great fun. That’s why when we came down here and I thought oh, yes, we’ll go riding here, so that’s why my dad found these people with a mule, or a horse or whatever it was, and I rode that thing. I rode a couple times when I was here as a kid. This saddle actually came from a fellow who needed money, and he had this beautiful saddle. That’s all he had and his wife, and so I bought the saddle from him. The spurs are Poncho’s. He said, “You can’t have a saddle without spurs!” He brought spurs over. The tapestry was - somebody brought that. I don't know who it was. I don't know if I bought it from somebody or somebody gave that to me. I don't remember. It wasn't my creation, but it’s beautiful, and I love it. That’s why we put it up there, too.

ER: It’s nice.

PF: The saddle is really very old. I would hate to have to ride on that saddle. It’s hard as a rock. There is no give in that saddle.

ER: You have to fit the saddle.

PF: Yes. That’s what happens around here. Poncho has this cow. This is interesting. This is what Mexicans can achieve, if they want to achieve. He decided to buy a cow one time. I thought, why is he buying that skinny cow? He bought this skinny cow that had a calf, and it was a female calf, and so it grew up and had a calf and then that calf had a calf. He now has like twenty cows.

PP: Oh, wow.

PF: Just by and when they're for sale, when they are boys he feeds them up and sells them for money enough to hopefully feed for the rest of the cows or to buy another cow. That’s how his ….

PP: How long has Poncho worked for you, or how did you come to know him?

PF: He came through Stephanie. He worked for Stephanie, and yes, he worked for Stephanie for quite a few years, and he was not happy, so he quit working for her and he came and he said, “You know, I need to feed my family. I need a job”. I said, “Okay, I’ll give you a job because he was working for me one day a week or something like that whenever he wasn't working for Stephanie he would - I would have a tree and he’d come and dig a hole and plant a tree and stuff. He was around a lot so that by the time he said he needed a job, I knew he was a good worker, and that he would work out well and he did.

ER: Good.

PF: I think Stephanie is still mad. (All laugh) But don't put that in there. Delete that part. (All laugh)

ER: What is his last name?

PF: Zabala. Z. A. B. A . L. A. Poncho Zabala. He said he learned …. I asked him this, “You really are a good worker. How did you go about that?” “My father made sure I was a good worker. He doesn't read or write, because he has, I don't know if it is dyslexia or something. He can’t comprehend letters and stuff, but he’ll remember everything, so don't tell him anything you don't want him to remember. Wait I started this… Stephanie….

PP: Well I asked you how long he had worked for you.

PF: He has been here now eleven years with me. It’s a long time. He’s a great guy. We have - one of our little things that we do is about once a month, sometimes twice a month, depending on how often we have to go into Navojoa, we’ll go before breakfast to Navojoa, we’ll go to Kuko’s and have shrimp cocktail, and then we go shopping. It’s lethal to shop on an empty stomach, so we go to have some food. We went just yesterday to Kuko’s and the girl comes out with our shrimp cocktails before she even sees us sit down. I’ll have a coca cola with mine and he’ll have something.

ER: It’s perfect.

PF: Yes. That works out well. He has been a good worker. Really good. He was instrumental in finding people. He can do a lot himself, but if there is stuff that he knows he can’t do, so like the plumbing, the heavy plumbing work stuff he’ll get somebody to do that. There was a well there in Rastro, but it didn't have any water in it. The option was to dig the well deeper and hope for water or to do something else, so he goes some guys to work, and we dug it down a little bit deeper and cemented it in and made a big aljibe. Put a pump in. That’s how we get the water up to the house. When the electricity goes out, then there is no water unless the tinaco is already full. There was a time on the ranch outside of town here that the water shortage was real bad, and the roads were bad and so the - it was when they were building the road over here to the new road, and they couldn't get the trucks out - the pipa to put water in the tinaco at my place, but at Poncho’s his is lower down, so the truck could get there, but they couldn't get up above.

PP: So you have a ranch here?

PF: It’s a little house about this big. It has two rooms.

PP: Oh so, it’s not a cattle ranch. It’s a house in the country.

PF: It’s a house in the country. (Ellen laughs) I call it the ranch.

PP: Okay, okay.

PF: It is the ranch. What is this?? This is gossip. Alamos is made up of gossip. I buy this piece of property. It is five hectares. Five acres. Five acres. It’s not huge. It’s just five acres maybe. No water on it at all, and a bunch of scrub trees, but it is pretty. This guy had cancer in his ear and he would go every day to the hospital. The hospital here is a great little hospital. They do get service for you, and he would go every day and they would dress this wound that he had, but he was getting older. He knew he was going to die with his cancer, and he wanted to have enough money so that his sister would take care of him until he died. Of course, he had very little money, so I bought that property from him ,and I thought this is cool. It’s a ranch, a ranch out here, so then I go to Chela to get it documented or what have you. Maybe it was Chela or if it was - what is that woman. Sorry I am terrible with names.

ER: Liliana.

PF: Liliana. Yes. It might have been Liliana I was talking about. I don't remember which one it was. Anyway, come to find out it never had even been possessed, and the guy had been on it for ten, fifteen years with his mules, and they were eating the trees. There were no big trees on it even, but so anyway, I had to buy it from Mexico, and it was going to cost me twenty thousand dollars because they wanted so much a square meter for the land. I thought, I can’t do that. So I said, “Poncho, we’re going to give you some land, and it’s your responsibility. You pay the taxes on it but I get to have the use of half of it until I die or leave. Whatever happens first, so that’s how we set this up. He goes up, and he waters those trees, and this past year I haven't been up there. I haven't even gone once this last year. But he’s up there every week watering, making sure the trees don't die. I do have a donkey, a burro, out there. Her name is Chuita??, and she has a corral up there, too, but quite often he’ll take her down to the corral with his animals, so he doesn't have to feed all of them. Okay, any more or is that it?

ER: Anything else you want to add or anything else you can think of - the future of Alamos. What is going to happen here?

PF: It’s going to get busier and busier, and that will be a profitable thing for the local people, I think. I don't see it as a big negativity. I think that growth is always positive, because it seems to be growing in the right type of venue here. My feelings. It’s not negative feelings or anything like that. I’m sure there are good people and bad people just like every place else in the world, but I concentrate on the good people.

ER: Very good. Well, thank you.

PF: You are welcome. It will be interesting to see how much you edit out of this.

Transcribed by Ellen Ryan, Alamos History Association

April 24, 2019